Welcome to the Money Script podcast. It's your host, Yohance Harrison. So happy to be with each and every one of you today. Today I am joined by Constance McConnell. I thought she was a financial therapist, but she is a therapist. But then her life started to evolve, her clients evolved, and she started to specialize in being a financial coach and working specifically with people who are marginalized. And I'll let her talk more about that because we go pretty deep into it. So this was a fun one. It was a touching one. As well, reminded me of some things that I haven't thought about in a long time. And it was just a time for Labor Day. So that's when we were recording this Labor Day of 2026. I, I forgot what Labor Day was all about. Apparently it's not about barbecues and, and beer and football, those, although those things do happen around the same time. But the, the history of Labor Day in the United States is an interesting one. We're going to speak on a little bit, but I encourage you to go, go down that rabbit hole a little bit. Learn why OSHA exists. Learn why we have labor laws in the different states. A lot of that has to do with the suffering of our, our not so distant ancestors. I mean, we're talking about things that happened less than 100 years ago. In some instances less than 50 years ago. So, yeah, welcome to America. So with that, we'll get to constants and we'll see you on the other side. Take.

Yohance

Record. Yeah. See, Constance, we could have been recording this whole time. But you're doing pre work with me. Let's get into it. This is the conversation. This is what we're here for. This is what we're here for. So actually I do the introductions later. So we just jump into it. Here we are. So, Constance, since we are recording on Labor Day weekend, I did see a post earlier on LinkedIn about the history of Labor Day. I don't even know that I'm clear with the history of Labor Day. I'm sure it was on a test that's on some history class that I had in high school, but I didn't see a reason to keep that stored in my memory and I wasn't there. So tell us, what is the history of Labor Day?

Constance

Yeah, good question. I thought it's supposed to be really relevant because of the holiday coming up, but the history of Labor Day that dates back all the way to the Industrial Revolution and the poor working conditions that laborers had.

Yohance

Oh yeah, they were.

Constance

So yes, it was a response like

Yohance

people all the time at work. Like I remember reading about that. Like it was, it was a danger. Was no osha. There was no.

Constance

Right.

Yohance

Osha. And yeah, it was like, yeah, no, death at work was, was a thing. You would burn inside of buildings and, and fall out of windows and yeah, I mean, we were just a few steps removed from slavery and you know, servants. But go ahead. I'm sorry I interrupted you. So continue.

Constance

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, the, the poor working conditions was one of the issues. But also just the longer work days. Right. Like there weren't days off. You know, there were children working at a very young age, you know, and so workers took time off and did like their first protest in New York City around this time of the year. The queen think. I think it was like around this time either the 4th or 5th September when they organized and marched off. And it's been recognized as

Yohance

it, it

Constance

was, it was not common. So it drew a lot of attention and it made people become more mindful of their, well being in the work setting and the value of that. And so state by state started to recognize Labor Day. And I believe Oregon was the first state to shout out to legalize it. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Got it.

Yohance

Okay. Well, happy.

Constance

I thought it'd be interesting. Yeah. Not a lot of people know. And I didn't learn that. I didn't learn that in, in school

Yohance

or maybe I didn't learn. So maybe I learned it on Instagram or something. Scrolling one Day, probably like, did you know on Labor Day? Yeah, well, so, yeah, I guess we. We also had the sweatshops back in the day and there weren't iPhones to be made, but the kids were making something. Probably making.

Constance

Yeah.

Yohance

Candles and wheels and horseshoes or something. Who knows? So, Constance, tell us a little bit about your role as a recovering therapist. Can I use that term and getting into financial coaching?

Constance

Yeah, that's a good question. I'm so. I am a therapist. I still do therapy, but that's through a different business business called Courageous Healing. But my financial coaching business is called Money Minded Healing. And I first started off incorporating a lot of the framework and the approaches that I learned from the Certified Financial Social Worker association into my therapy sessions. But. But one thing that I started to notice within my clients, particularly a lot of my clients are part of historically marginalized populations. They had a lot of guilt and shame around not having the financial literacy or not really knowing where to start to take better control of their money. And I started to see the value in educating clients about America's history of not giving access to people of color. And I always share the example of my grandfather, who is 89 and he also is a veteran, but he did not. He was not able to utilize a lot of the VA benefits until the 1960s.

Yohance

Okay.

Constance

Even though those benefits were.

Yohance

Yeah, I gotta stop you.

Constance

I apolog.

Yohance

Okay, so you, you do some big words out there. We. I want to break a couple things down, okay. For our, our listeners and viewers to make sure they follow. So the phrase you use was historically marginalized populations. Yes, population. Okay, so historical. So in the past, marginalized. What do we mean by marginalized? Who, like, what does that, what do you mean by that?

Constance

Good question. Yeah. So marginalized means that these people, part of the community, have been impacted by laws and regulations that have hindered their access to having a positive well being of life systemically. And so when I'm talking about that in relation to my clients, I'm talking about individuals who are part of the people that are part of LGBTQ population, the neurodiverse or neurodivergent population, and people of color.

Yohance

Okay, so for our, for some of our listeners out there, and we have listeners all over the world, and viewers all over the world, shout out to my newest listeners in Singapore, what language? Anyways, so. So in America, there was a time where laws were in place that, that, that disproportionately continue to segregate certain people out of the financial community.

Constance

Yes.

Yohance

Meaning in some of this. Some of these terms you've probably heard before. You've probably heard of redlining.

Constance

Yes.

Yohance

Where there were neighborhoods where if your skin tone wasn't a certain color, then you weren't allowed to buy a home in that neighborhood no matter how much money you had.

Constance

Yes.

Yohance

Where there were banks that would refuse or deny people access to checking, savings accounts, to loans, if you were not of a certain background.

Constance

Right. And it even relates to women in America and women.

Yohance

Yes. Thank you.

Constance

Yeah, 1970s.

Yohance

Sorry, ladies. Yeah, there was a time.

Constance

Yeah, 1970s.

Yohance

You couldn't even get a credit card

Constance

before then without your husband or brother. Yeah.

Yohance

Yep. Yeah, yep. So then. And mind you, it's only 20, 26. So we're talking about. There are lots of people alive today, like your grandfather, that actually live through those times.

Constance

Yeah.

Yohance

And if we think about it, especially in America, one of the greatest sources of multi generational wealth in the United States is home ownership.

Constance

Yeah.

Yohance

So if your grandfather being a veteran and you said he's 89. I'm trying to do math here.

Constance

Yeah, he's 89.

Yohance

So let's subtract.

Constance

1937.

Yohance

1937. So he's coming home from what, World War something? No. World War II? No, he was a baby.

Constance

Yeah.

Yohance

Vietnam. He's Vietnam or Korea? War. One of those.

Constance

Yes. Yeah.

Yohance

Okay. Thank you. Fact checkers. I know, Thanks. I was thinking of his birth date. So he was born into war and then he went to war. See, look. Yeah, I finished that. I see how I circled that square. So he comes home as a veteran and is looking at the 80, 90% of the rest of his troops that survived and came home of his. Of his compadres that survived and came home. And they're getting access to VA loans to be able to purchase homes in the communities where some of them are not from, but they just had. They had the access to that loan, they could buy that home. And in the 1960s and 70s, and he was locked out of that until when, when, when did he finally get access?

Constance

So actually the GI Bill was after World War II.

Yohance

Okay.

Constance

So that was 20 years before he actually had access to a VA loan to buy his first house. In the 60s. In the mid-60s.

Yohance

The mid. So he wasn't able to do it to the mid-60s, whereas everyone else was able to do it from 19. Was that 45?

Constance

Yes, it was about 20 year difference. And so you think about like how much wealth so anybody can build if

Yohance

they had a 20 year buying stuff. Yeah, 20 year head start.

Constance

Right.

Yohance

That, that is, that is the, the literal definition of a head start. If we think about how property values go up over time and all that. I mean, a 20 year head start. Yeah, so, so when those things impact someone like your grandfather, I mean, that trickles down to your parents.

Constance

Right.

Yohance

And eventually down to you. Because I know all. I've seen it where you have grandparents and great grandparents where they pass on and they leave behind this wealth and that wealth winds up buying more property or it winds up paying for college, or it winds up starting businesses, all of that stuff. So that again, that 20 year head start becomes. Is compounded every single year that the access is denied exponentially, generationally into the future.

Constance

Right, right.

Yohance

Okay. I just want to make sure we could ground ourselves in that. So as you were saying, so you. So that is where you focus on your financial coaching. So what, I mean, what type of financial coaching do some of your clients need? Or what is it that you're helping them work through besides a history lesson?

Constance

I'm helping them work through a lot of shame and guilt associated not knowing. I am. Most of my clients not only identify as people of color or women are part of the lgbtq, but they also identify part of the neurodivergent community.

Yohance

And let's break that one down. Neurodivergent. That's another big word.

Constance

Yeah. So there's more of a research coming out that the idea of neurodivergence is how your brain works just differently. How your, your brain processes things differently than others. How in processing things different could mean sensory, it could be cognitively, it could mean around executive functioning, like how you organize and prioritize things, how you problem solve things, just a different way of how you see things and process the world in your environment.

Yohance

So, so would. And we're not fall into that.

Constance

Yes. Yeah.

Yohance

Okay.

Constance

Yes. So yeah.

Yohance

So this is the. On the spectrum, as they say.

Constance

So yeah, you want me to give some typical diagnosis of someone who would identify as. So, yeah. So yeah. So people who have been diagnosed with a learning disability, people who have been diagnosed with adhd, people have been diagnosed with autism, people who have sensory processing difficulties. Again, people who struggle with adapting to their environment, and people who struggle sometimes with managing and managing their emotions and navigating social dynamics. It's pretty broad. Even, even giftedness is a form of neurodivergence because it's a different approach. Your brain is working differently than the, than everybody else.

Yohance

And that, that would. I could see how that could have an impact on financial decisions because Financial decisions can often be very.

Constance

Yes. Financial decision. Money is around us whether we want to admit it or not. Money shows up in almost every aspect of our lives and it can be overwhelming to manage it.

Yohance

You can.

Constance

And we live in a. Oh, yeah, no, no.

Yohance

I was, I was gonna ask. I think you're getting there. But just, I mean, how, how, how do you help someone like that, that has those neurodivergences or neuro divergent tendencies? Yeah. You know. Yeah.

Constance

So I'm a social worker at heart, so I believe in. I believe everybody has a story and I believe in a person environment. So I try to get to know that person, but also know and learn about their strengths, their supports, their challenges. Of course. And I always start off when I'm working with clients grounding in who they believe they are in their identity. So I first start off with that. I'm able to learn a little bit more about my client in that way. And then I'm able to incorporate systems that work for that person based off of their strengths and their supports that they have. And so I do that by incorporating a lot of resources that help people organize better organizer money. I will do a lot of what's called body doubling with clients where we share each other's screens and I walk them through how to create auto pay and how to download a budgeting app. But at the end of the day, I always lead the curiosity and I always ask clients, encourage clients to be part of the work and collaborate because they know themselves best and also lead with curiosity instead of judgment as they figure out what works for them in terms of organizing their money.

Yohance

Yeah. I suppose that there is a certain part of the population that, you know, may have these neurodivergent tendencies, but have also learned over ways, learned over the years ways to still function in a financial society, but still may hold on to some of those self judgments or even some of those bad habits that they may not quite know how to work themselves through. And so it sounds like the work that you're doing is really just. Just putting a spotlight on again, the curiosity and helping them cope with their differences and finding strengths with. Within those differences as well so that they can just have a better relationship with their money. Did I sum that up right?

Constance

Yes. Yeah.

Yohance

Okay. Okay. So, yeah. So for, for those of you that are. That are curious. Yes. We walked into this podcast, I had one idea of Constance's role and she knew better of what her role is. And so we kind of began. I was like, wait, aren't you Just a financial therapist. She was like, no, I am not just a financial therapist. Forgive the. Just. I'm sorry to my financial therapists out there. I did not mean it that way. It came out that way. Don't you therapy me right now. But I. I didn't know that what Constance was doing was so much more. I didn't know about the impact on our marginalized, historically marginalized communities. So thank you, Constance, for the work that you're doing. And I think this is very noble work. And I'm glad that someone's doing it you. Because I'll admit, as a financial advisor, I've been introduced sometimes to clients where I'm able to recognize some of the signs because I have some. You know, we all have some. Some folks in our family that are on the spectrum, as we like to call it. And, and I've been through some of the testing myself as I was going through my adolescent years for ADHD and ADD and all those fun things. And I. I like, prefer to call myself as gifted. At least that's what my mama said, so. But I sometimes come across situations like that where that person will either find me online or they get referred to me. And the work that they need is beyond really what I'm able to do. And I could have some conversations with them just about again, building on their strengths, you know, getting into their curiosity. But in the day, I'm a financial. I'm like, okay, let's go, let's get to work. Let's. Yeah, yeah, you know, let's. Okay, you don't have a budget, Great, let's create one. And sometimes they can't move at the same speed that I'm used to moving. And I have a heart and I want to help them. I just don't know how. So that's why I'm really excited to learn more about the work that you do and. And have you as a resource to be able to introduce to clients that I feel that you're. The work that you're doing may be able to support them so that they can come back to me later and say, hey, I'm organized now. I understand. I'm set. I have a budget. I'm starting to save. Because those members of our society also will get married and they'll have children and they'll educate those children. They'll want to buy houses, they'll want to retire one day. Not all of them are going to have the government to take care of them. There are some of them that do get some government assistance but there's a larger group of them that don't. And if we're not able to find ways to bring them into the fold of building their financial literacy for themselves and give them the tools to do that, then all we're doing is creating more poverty. Which again, just goes back now. We are historically marginalizing those individuals as well. The cycle continues heavy today.

Constance

Yeah. And I know you had talked about to capacity as a financial advisor. I have a lot of financial advisors that refer clients to me just because they just don't have the sometimes physical time or emotional capacity to meet clients. You know, they only have a certain limited amount of time basically to meet clients where they are and work with them. And I definitely say that my approach to coaching is making adults slow down. Definitely making the adults slow down and be more mindful of their values, their emotions, the social impacts of how money shows up in their lives.

Yohance

Yep, that is, that is what. So that is where our lines, that's where we crossed a little bit. Because I, I'm a behavioral financial advisor, so I, you know, I'm into the values and goals and the behavioral alignment as well. But again, like I said, from a time standpoint and just the type of business I'm running, there are some people like, okay, I, I can't get you there. Just the, the love. It's. And it's not for a lack of patience. It's just that I don't know how to get you there because I'm used to a certain, I'm used to a certain type of student. As I say, the saying goes, when the student arrives, the teacher will be ready to teach. I know I missed that. But, but, but. So I'm used to. When students come to me at a certain level, I'm able to teach really well. But if they come to me at a different level, it's almost like it's. If I teach French to people, to English speech speakers, and somebody comes to me and they're speaking Spanish, they want to learn French. I'm sorry, I, I teach French to English speakers. Speakers. I can't, I, I don't, I can't compute that. And I think that's part of what I find I run into. And that's why, again, why I'm excited about the uniqueness of the work that you do. So, so, Constance, if, if people want to reach out and learn more about the work that you do for these historically marginalized communities, how can they find you?

Constance

Yes, you can find me on money minded healing.com and on LinkedIn just under my name, Constance McConnell. I do have a Instagram Pan and Tick Tock account that's under my other business, Courageous Healing, but I do post a lot of financial wellness resources on there too.

Yohance

Awesome, awesome. We'll make sure to tag those in the show notes. So. All right, so I know you wanted to be prepared for this. I told you, you're fine. You're just talking about yourself, and you've done a of lot amazing. But now I'm gonna hit you with a curveball. So there is a question we ask every guest of the Money Script podcast, and we prefer when our guests are not prepared for the question. So if you've listened to any of the Money Script podcast, you may know what's coming. If you have not listened to any, great, because here it comes. Constance, what is your first memory of Money?

Constance

I asked that question a lot to my clients. My first memory of money, I was probably 10, and I'm almost 40, so people who are younger than me probably are like, what are answering machines? But anyway, we were listening to the answering machine at my house after we had came home from, I think, church, and there was a voicemail from Chase asking for my mom to call Chase back about some balance on her account. And I remember asking my parents who Chase was, and my dad joked and said, oh, that's your mom's boyfriend.

Yohance

Okay.

Constance

Yeah.

Yohance

And so when did you learn who Chase really was?

Constance

Oh, when I learned about what credit card that was and. Credit cards? Yeah, probably. Probably in college. The advice was like, to never get a credit card.

Yohance

Wait, wait, so you spent years just thinking that your mom had a second boyfriend named Chase?

Constance

I knew that.

Yohance

You probably knew.

Constance

Yeah. I didn't know that Chase was, like, a bank or I didn't know Chase was a bank. Yeah. But I knew, like, because my dad was the one that brought it up. Yeah, my dad said it. So I was like, he wouldn't, like, jokingly, you know, like, it would. It would be a joke, basically. Yes.

Yohance

Wow.

Constance

So, yeah, I just remember, like, preparing to go to college and then my parents. I think that was, you know, one of the more explicit conversations around personal finances that we had. It was don't take a credit card. Don't, don't, don't. Don't sign up for a credit card while you're in college.

Yohance

Yep. I didn't get that advice. That's one of the first things I did. First day of college, signed up for. Really? Sure did.

Constance

Okay.

Yohance

Signed up for that Capital One. Most expensive they were.

Constance

They Were out there. Yeah, they were doing all kinds of free stuff.

Yohance

Oh, yeah, I got my T shirt, had my cap. Yeah, I remember that T shirt. I wore that T shirt out. I did cut the sleeves off and everything. That was my most expensive T shirt I ever purchased. All the interest I gave Capital One over years. Capital One, you owe me more than T shirt. Y' all should be Capital One. Capital One should be pay for the T shirt on my back right now. But, yeah, I know. Better now. No, better now. So.

Constance

Yeah. But over time, I started to learn more about credit cards and how it's a resource and a tool and you have control over it. And so I. I think I was in grad school when I got my first credit card. And I was just very intentional. I first started off with something very small that I could pay off, like groceries. I was like, okay, I can pay. It's something that I have to get to live. And I get groceries. I'm going to use my car, and now I'm going to be able to pay it off at the end of the month. And then as I got older, I learned about points. So now I use it for points, still making sure I'm mindful of being able to pay it off at the end of the month. But I'm also reading the benefits of earning points so I can travel. And that's like, one of my favorite things to do, travel. I can use that to do the things that I love in my life.

Yohance

I was just reminded, going back to our earlier conversation, about neurodivergent individuals, and I was reminded of someone I couldn't help. This had to be 20 years ago. I worked with a client when I was in Los Angeles. And this young lady, she was probably in her late 30s, early 40s. She. She may still do this for all I know, but she was a janitor, basically, at the Staples center in Los Angeles. So downtown Los Angeles, Staples Center. So after the game, she's there cleaning up. Born and raised in the, you know, LA inner city, LA area. Definitely, you know, ancestors were marginalized a bit, but. But they were able to buy some homes in the probably late 70s, 80s. So they had some significant equity inside their homes by the time I met them. And she was still living at homes, I believe the unit that her father had had what they call adu. So additional unit that was there, and she lived there. And she took the bus to and from work. And every day on the way home, she would stop to get her father, like, a soda, pack of cigarettes and some Lottery tickets. And she did this every day for years. Well, one day she won the lottery and it was one of those things where he'd get a ticket, she'd get a ticket, you know, they'd scratch him.

Constance

Yeah, yeah.

Yohance

So one day she wins and she wins the. I can't remember. It's like, it's not Wheel of Fortune, but it was some sort of, okay, you won $50,000, but you also get to come and play this game where you may win more. And she goes and plays the game and she wins more the exact amounts,

Constance

but it was okay. Wow.

Yohance

And this, this person happened to be, I don't know, the distant cousin of another client and said, please, will you help this individual? She just won the lottery. And in our first meeting, I could tell, I was like, okay, you're different. And her understanding and concepts of, of, of money were a little bit different. And when I say I couldn't help her, I mean, the one thing that we did is she chose the 20 year payout because the idea of her and her family and having millions of dollars at her disposal all at once and said that, I know, I, I think you should choose the 20 year payout. And so we did some other cool things. Like I had her max out her 401k because like, hey, you're going to live off this money they give you. We can put money in your 401k, so 20 years from now, you're still a millionaire. And she was able to grasp that. And we did that. But the one thing she wasn't able to grasp was how to say no. And she would get that lump sum of 100, something, thousand dollars every single year. And she would do the things I told her to do so that she has, you know, so she can cover her bills. So we had put some money in accounts like, okay, you're still gonna get a paycheck every two weeks just like you used to, but now it's all going to 401k. You'll still get that. So you can pay your bills, but the rest of the money, oh my goodness. Every family member was getting a car. And then this person needed their taxes paid. And this person wanted to start a business. And every single year by like March or February, because you get the check in January. By March or February, she's down to nothing, only living off the normal income that she was receiving from being a janitor. And so it was, it was really sad to just kind of see that happening to her in her not having the mental capacity to A, say no or B, see that her family was taking advantage of her completely. And I remember years later when she came to the office and she was frustrated because a family member she had helped by a car, the family member didn't have insurance on the car and the car got toll. And so then they wanted a new car or then the other family member who she helped them pay off their house, but then they quit their job and didn't have money to pay the taxes. So now she needed to pay the taxes on the house. It was just, it was, every time I would see her, it was just. And it was just. But that, that was, that's one of those situations that I just distinctly remember of that what she needed was something I really, I was able to provide some structure on. Okay, here's how we can help each year in 20 years.

Constance

Yeah, money.

Yohance

But I didn't know how to help her manage that, that day to day process or manage herself, manage her emotions because it was really guilt at the end of the day, the emotions of her winning this lottery and managing that capital. Because truth be told, because she lives such a meager lifestyle, I mean, she should have been able to retire in 10 years and not have to work. But I left Los Angeles in 2018. Let me take it back. I left that firm in 2014. And at that time we were about 10 years into her lottery winning plan. And if it weren't at that time, if it Weren't for her 401k, she'd be broke. So I don't know. I lost contacts. I don't know where she is now. But now we're, we're 10 years beyond. So that she's done. So she won the lottery thing in 2005 or 2004, I think payout started in 2005. She's won 2004. So 2005 is. So now we're, I mean, 2025, that was the end of her payments. So.

Constance

Yeah. And you know, boundary setting is. It's hard for everyone.

Yohance

True.

Constance

It's a practice. It's not really something that we're really taught. And I, I see this, this balance of capacity around using money as a tool, as a. Is a struggle for a lot of my clients, particularly, you know, clients who are part of historically marginalized populations, because a lot of communities are very collected. And so I definitely still consider the cultural aspect of what makes the person who they are in their community. And how do you balance not draining all of your resources and all of your money, but also seeing the value that one person may have around being. Being a support financially to others in their community and their loved ones that have supported them in other ways in their life. So we talk more about the balance and even. We talk about even structural supports around how we create balances. I mean, boundaries that can help practicing boundaries a little bit easier for clients.

Yohance

No, that is noble work that you do. It is. Well, Constance, thank you again for joining us on the Money Script podcast. Remember, everyone to share this with somebody, okay? That's how we get the word out.

Constance

Well, thank you for having me.

Yohance

You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome. And to everybody else, we will see you next time. We are wrapping up, by the way. Hey, we're wrapping up on season. What is this Season seven, Kingly seven. Season seven. Other Money Script podcast. We were wrapping up season seven. So we've got a few more episodes that we're going to record between now in the end of 2026. We'll take a short break and then we'll be back with season eight. It feels weird saying it. We'll be back with season eight next year of the Money Script Pocket. I hope I have that right. Is it seven going to eight? It better not be six going to seven. Oops, I just said it. Now my daughter's going to hear it and she's going to scream it at the top of her lungs. So for those of you that were listening with kids in the car, you. You're welcome. We'll see you next time. Take care. All right. You did great. So I record my intros after. So I'll record the intro for this. It'll probably come out in about a month or so. We got two or three in front of you.

Constance

Okay.

Yohance

Jessica will be in touch. She'll let you know and we'will share it and have some fun.

Constance

Okay, well, thank you for having me.

Yohance

Thank you.

Constance

Have a good weekend. Enjoy the three day weekend. Hopefully you're taking that day off.

Yohance

Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely.

Constance

Awesome. Okay, take care.

Yohance

You too.

Constance

Bye.